Non dual talks and more

[randy1953]

Enjoy reading your posts. Really nothing to add here except to know we are really not here. Its the illusion of who we think, feel, and act that creates a object called human beings. The reason why some questions can never be answered is because you are getting very close to the truth and in the truth of all there are no questions and the result is there are no answers.

The questions such as who we are, where do we come from, what is our purpose in life and so on are questions ask by the illusion itself. The real who you are never asks it just is. As Eric put it where is the fun in that so we play the game of our discovery into our own illusionary self.
The game is endless by the way meaning there is no end to it but what else could the illusion do once it gets discovered it goes away, the you that you think you are goes away however not for long as long as your in this body you will come back to play another day. Maybe you play in the world of metaphysics next time or maybe you get religious, or you join Scientology or best of all you say your finished and all seeking has stopped. Now beware because seeking now will enter under a different name called no seeking or seeking has ended or whatever why because your still in the game only the name has changed. Maybe now you become a Guru or a Buddha you have reached totally enlightenment and you give satsang well satsang is your new game.

In the end you find out there is no end and never was a beginning either. Lucky are those who find this out early in life and lucky are those that never find it out also and why and I will end with this. The Why is now listen softly here its how you play the game that counts! You play the game with love unconditional and never a need nor concern for anything else. Its always been about love. Love is the magic and is the only element in the game that brings you your rewards. So whatever your game is, no matter how many times it changes and change it will just remember its love that plays through game and the game is played through love.
Peace and love
Randji
Keep up the wonderful postings they are great.
_________________
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You are THAT which you seek

[Light Mystic]

Hey Randy, thanks for your post.

I'm curious, what is the difference in your experience between the illusion and reality in terms of content?

randy1953 wrote:

Enjoy reading your posts. Really nothing to add here except to know we are really not here. Its the illusion of who we think, feel, and act that creates a object called human beings. The reason why some questions can never be answered is because you are getting very close to the truth and in the truth of all there are no questions and the result is there are no answers. The questions such as who we are, where do we come from, what is our purpose in life and so on are questions ask by the illusion itself. The real who you are never asks it just is. As Eric put it where is the fun in that so we play the game of our discovery into our own illusionary self. The game is endless by the way meaning there is no end to it but what else could the illusion do once it gets discovered it goes away, the you that you think you are goes away however not for long as long as your in this body you will come back to play another day. Maybe you play in the world of metaphysics next time or maybe you get religious, or you join Scientology or best of all you say your finished and all seeking has stopped. Now beware because seeking now will enter under a different name called no seeking or seeking has ended or whatever why because your still in the game only the name has changed. Maybe now you become a Guru or a Buddha you have reached totally enlightenment and you give satsang well satsang is your new game. In the end you find out there is no end and never was a beginning either. Lucky are those who find this out early in life and lucky are those that never find it out also and why and I will end with this. The Why is now listen softly here its how you play the game that counts! You play the game with love unconditional and never a need nor concern for anything else. Its always been about love. Love is the magic and is the only element in the game that brings you your rewards. So whatever your game is, no matter how many times it changes and change it will just remember its love that plays through game and the game is played through love. Peace and love Randji Keep up the wonderful postings they are great.

[randy1953]

For me true reality is the non manifest before content and illusion is any and all content that is perception.
A great example of this is Ramana. If you have read his life story not his words giving satsang but his life being told by a man that was always very close to him daily. You will see that most of the time Ramana was in complete stillness, he was living in the non manifest for most of his life.

When he came out of that stillness he entered in the the world of illusion and then only for a short time and return to the stillness. Ramana was very unique as he could enter at will into the void, the unmanifest and of course this was his favorite place to be. The reason why people were always so amazed at a small hindu man just sitting there is because Ramana was like a conduit to the real reality that all of us know, its our home but being so hypnotized most of us never wake up but when sitting next to a being as Ranama he makes it much easier for he and lives in the non manifest which in truth is the only true reality there is.

This has been my recent experience and I have found it to be absolutely true.
Peace
Randji
_________________
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You are THAT which you seek

[Light Mystic]

Thanks for your response. What I hear you saying is that you perceive directly that there is no separation, so any appearance of separation must be illusory. That is necessarily true.

So, from that basis, it sounds like your saying "the phenomenal world is separate, so it must be an illusion." I would like to suggest, based on my own experience, that perhaps the phenomenal world isn't separate. Perhaps it's differentiated, but not separate. Surely, you won't argue that differentiation is not real, as it's an experience just as much as the Absolute is an experience, even though which one is in the foreground or background can certainly vary over time.

It's clear that you can feel the Absolute - Consciousness in it's unmanifest state. And that same Consciousness then manifests into Creation. I will suggest that you are That which encomp*filtered*es both. That the Relative and the Absolute are both simultaneous experience that you contain, neither having any more validity than the other. Both as aspects of your own Awareness. You are something that contains both...

As evidence of this, notice that you can start to recognize that you feel the Absolute through a subtle aspect of your Relative senses. I find that this can get more and more concrete with time an attention, as the balance between Absolute and Relative start to be appreciated.

Ramana Maharishi was a very integrated guy, and he obviously had his personality that took him into very quiet places. But, as many Enlightened masters have said, there is no such thing as "Enlightened behavior." There is no rule that one is not going to want to participate in the Relative because they a recognize all of Creation to be there own Awareness. It's definitely cool that you are intimate with the Absolute, but I think if you are honest with yourself, you will recognize that you must actually contain both.

Does that make sense?

[Portocala]

This has been my experience as well, as I mentioned in the first set of "questions for Mooji".

Light Mystic wrote:

I would like to suggest, based on my own experience, that perhaps the phenomenal world isn't separate. Perhaps it's differentiated, but not separate. ................... That the Relative and the Absolute are both simultaneous experience that you contain, neither having any more validity than the other. Both as aspects of your own Awareness. You are something that contains both...

[randy1953]

Portocala wrote:

This has been my experience as well, as I mentioned in the first set of "questions for Mooji". Light Mystic wrote: I would like to suggest, based on my own experience, that perhaps the phenomenal world isn't separate. Perhaps it's differentiated, but not separate. ................... That the Relative and the Absolute are both simultaneous experience that you contain, neither having any more validity than the other. Both as aspects of your own Awareness. You are something that contains both...

For LM and Portocala

Its not something I can even close to in words.
I am speaking from a place I never spoke before.
It all happened when I was in the Jungle down here.

All I can say is the actual reality of what is can never be spoken in words. Now what I call illusion you may call it a different reality it matters not in truth there is only reality which can not be spoken of and everything that can be spoken of is not real. Its really simple too simple.
A example is lets say you are talking a walk in a park on a nice sunny day and you walk by a pond with still waters and see your reflection well your reflection is not you its what the filter of your eyes perceive its just a reflection and this is how this world you call reality is its just a reflection not a part of anything. Would you call a reflection of you to be a part of you of course not .
Maybe you would if you got really crazy about it all but I am speaking in simple and straight terms. You know its just a reflection and its not real. You know during the time of the reflection if a kid throws a rock at it that you will not be harmed. Now go back 200 years or so and find some people that never seen a pond, or anything that would shown them their reflection what do you think they would think? They would think that another person is there. That is how the truth really is until you see it for yourself and find out what IS you are like the person 200 years ago seeing another person in the reflection.
There is no more seeking or even wanting to find out anything anymore for me once it is seen. I do not need nor want to dissect a illusion to see what is there no more than a person wants nor needs to dissect a reflection.
Of course your own experience is your own and will lead you to your own truth of things however at the end of the day the words of The highlander comes to mind. There can only be ONE (truth)
Love
Randji
_________________
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You are THAT which you seek

[Light Mystic]

Hey Randy,

Sure, I'm just poking your experience, playing with it to see if more comes out. No offense intended...

Just to be clear, I know that your experience is valid. There's no issue of that for me.

And I respect that you've seen that the idea that you are a limited person is an illusion.

But here's what I'm saying: Once the dis-identification has occurred, there is a knowingness of who you are there is a knowingness that there is only one thing. That thing is your own Awareness, however you want to talk about it. So the "illusion" is just as much Awareness as the direct experience of the absolute. There is nothing that is not equally that Awareness. There may be old patterns that cannot comfortably recognize everything as Awareness the same amount initially, but that seems to start to fade over time if that is allowed and noticed. Perhaps you are already noticing that...


It's true that the world, the relative existence, is not true in the way it was previously perceived, but that just means there wasn't a clear understanding of what it was before. It's only an illusion in reference to what is was thought to be before clarity of Self dawned. Upon closer examination, I find that the same infinite appears to be able to condense into a smaller and smaller space while remaining that same all encomp*filtered*ing infinite...it seems to coalesce, it seems to solidify. It seems to get more and more physical, more and more visceral. Once it's integrated and seen on the most fundamental level, it's the opportunity for it to really soak in and integrate on every other level. This helps the personality relax more and more...

After all, if we poke the infinite, more comes out. But only 100% of the time...


Anyway, nothing wrong with looking into that right? Maybe you'll find something amazing.... Either way, you can't unsee the truth that you've seen, so it certainly couldn't hurt to check it out....

randy1953 wrote:

For LM and Portocala Its not something I can even close to in words. I am speaking from a place I never spoke before. It all happened when I was in the Jungle down here. All I can say is the actual reality of what is can never be spoken in words. Now what I call illusion you may call it a different reality it matters not in truth there is only reality which can not be spoken of and everything that can be spoken of is not real. Its really simple too simple. A example is lets say you are talking a walk in a park on a nice sunny day and you walk by a pond with still waters and see your reflection well your reflection is not you its what the filter of your eyes perceive its just a reflection and this is how this world you call reality is its just a reflection not a part of anything. Would you call a reflection of you to be a part of you of course not . Maybe you would if you got really crazy about it all but I am speaking in simple and straight terms. You know its just a reflection and its not real. You know during the time of the reflection if a kid throws a rock at it that you will not be harmed. Now go back 200 years or so and find some people that never seen a pond, or anything that would shown them their reflection what do you think they would think? They would think that another person is there. That is how the truth really is until you see it for yourself and find out what IS you are like the person 200 years ago seeing another person in the reflection. There is no more seeking or even wanting to find out anything anymore for me once it is seen. I do not need nor want to dissect a illusion to see what is there no more than a person wants nor needs to dissect a reflection. Of course your own experience is your own and will lead you to your own truth of things however at the end of the day the words of The highlander comes to mind. There can only be ONE (truth) Love Randji

[Advertizing]

[randy1953]

Light Mystic wrote:

But here's what I'm saying: Once the dis-identification has occurred, there is a knowingness of who you are there is a knowingness that there is only one thing. That thing is your own Awareness, however you want to talk about it. So the "illusion" is just as much Awareness as the direct experience of the absolute. There is nothing that is not equally that Awareness. There may be old patterns that cannot comfortably recognize everything as Awareness the same amount initially, but that seems to start to fade over time if that is allowed and noticed. Perhaps you are already noticing that...

Hi LM first of course I have no feeling your being offensive in the least. All I can say at this point for reasons unknown and no desire to know I am at peace with all that is. I have I think for the first time in my life no need to explore or investagte anything. All that stuff is gone and what is left for me is total freedom in and with all things. As I wrote once the reflection is seen for what it is there is no longer any need to go into it anymore it is done and finished. When you come or find this place you will see exactly what I mean. Nothing matters anymore nothing! I guess if I was ask though if I have any desire I would say no but if I was to make one up in my mind it would be that everyone finds this place of total freedom from evrything and anything.
However that desire as wonderful as it sounds is not even with me. So thats it. Now do not missunderstand this place. No desire yes, however if I see someone hurt I would help not out of duty or desire but out of natural movement to help when I can.
Ok peace to all
Hey anyone dl the music yet its ok if no one has its all ok just wanted to know if more was needed
Love
Randji
_________________
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You are THAT which you seek

[Light Mystic]

Hey Randy,

Actually, I'm talking about something a little different here...

There is no need, there is peace, that is the description of the lack of identification. That is the realization up dis-identification. The fulfillment is fundamental, and it's never going away.

And there's nothing wrong with just hanging out. But there is also more, and there is a lot more to be pursued and enjoyed. And that doesn't have to change or challenge your peace at all. Just because more can be appreciated and attended to isn't something that's actually opposed to the peace you are describing. In fact, it not only does it not get in the way, but it enhances it.

I cannot tell you how many times over the years that it felt as if there was a reaching of Enlightenment AGAIN, because the contrast of peace was so big. It's like I was at peace, and then a peace dawns that's so dramatic that it was ALMOST like the previous feeling was not peace in comparison. Even though it certainly was.

There's fulfillment all the way down, all the way through with this process.

I'm not talking about a lack of fulfillment here, I'm talking about a recognition of a process that leads to greater fulfillment and greater capacity for fulifllment, even though it's not on the level of "need" or "lack."

Too paradoxical sounding?

randy1953 wrote:

Hi LM first of course I have no feeling your being offensive in the least. All I can say at this point for reasons unknown and no desire to know I am at peace with all that is. I have I think for the first time in my life no need to explore or investagte anything. All that stuff is gone and what is left for me is total freedom in and with all things. As I wrote once the reflection is seen for what it is there is no longer any need to go into it anymore it is done and finished. When you come or find this place you will see exactly what I mean. Nothing matters anymore nothing! I guess if I was ask though if I have any desire I would say no but if I was to make one up in my mind it would be that everyone finds this place of total freedom from evrything and anything. However that desire as wonderful as it sounds is not even with me. So thats it. Now do not missunderstand this place. No desire yes, however if I see someone hurt I would help not out of duty or desire but out of natural movement to help when I can. Ok peace to all Hey anyone dl the music yet its ok if no one has its all ok just wanted to know if more was needed Love Randji

[randy1953]

Not really a paradox however with respect I disagree with you on there is more. Who is it that feels and or beleives there is more. The only part that can think that is the mind.
Your using your mind. Its so simple to see from my side.
Everything you say LM is very much of the truth when you are in your mind. Its the mind function to experience, to seek,to poke at or to explain. The mind will always show you there is more for the simple reason that it fears its own death a mind death you could say. So yes you can go through your whole life seeking, experiencing, explaining, teaching whatever and there will stil be more. You will never reach a trancended level of awareness though. The way of the mind will always keep you chasing a tail that does not exist. For sure you will get these out of the world kinds of awakening, you will get confirmation but in truth you will always stay in the level of the mind. Think of it this way the mind is like a very large house with many rooms and many levels but it still sits on the ground of the level of the mind. So one can visit all the differnt rooms, one can go up the stairs to the higher levels sure you can do all of that. You can look out of a window on the high levels and all that you will see is the mind, the ground is the mind everything is the mind.

Now simply what I am speaking about has nothing to do with hanging out though it may seem that way.
Its just being awareness itself. I really cannot say any more than that. The place is not of the mind at all but just like this post I have to sink into the mind to write this.
Peace
Randji
_________________
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You are THAT which you seek

[Light Mystic]

Well, you are welcome to whatever perspective you would like. I'm not sure what you mean by seeking. This is not an active goal over here, but a noticing that the process continues. There's definitely nothing that the mind does that can confine if it's seen through, but Mind is what makes constructs, makes a relative. What we are contains that, and there is a permanent peace.
I'm not sure if you've noticed, but the relative seems to continue on even with this, although the relationship is completely different. Who experiences this? Awareness, experiencing the multiplicity of Awareness...

I'm not sure what you think I'm suggesting here, but you haven't responded in a way that suggests you realize what I'm referring to...

Do you feel like the process of life has ended?

There's nothing to seek, explain, learn. I'm not talking about any of that. And if you think I am, then what's being referred to will only be interpreted on the level of disconnected concepts. Perhaps I cannot say it very well right now, perhaps you will find it later. Or not. Either way...

I'll try one more time, but I suspect there's no value in trying to talk about it anymore, at least for right now. You know that Awareness that has become everything? Natural attention to that seems to bring one back to the "illusion" to see that it is just as much that Awareness as everything. While it's true that everything has been recognized to be Absolute, there is a subtle fear of the Relative that leaves one to reject it as "not real." It's every bit as real as that same Awareness. Fixation and aversion are two sides of the same coin, and this is a subtle aversion, and a common one at that. It doesn't invalidate your experience or mean you haven't got it, but, if you are honest with yourself, you'll find that there is a desire not to be in the Relative that comes from this subtle (or perhaps not subtle) fear of the possibility of confinement.

This doesn't mean there's something more to know, get, have, or any of that to be a peace. It means that honesty with the process leads one into the Relative, in a way that integrates something that cannot be said. It's not Absolute as you're describing, and it's not Relative, as you think I'm describing. It's something that encomp*filtered*es both evenly and equally - pure Awareness itself. The flow of life...

Perhaps I'll try again later....

randy1953 wrote:

Not really a paradox however with respect I disagree with you on there is more. Who is it that feels and or beleives there is more. The only part that can think that is the mind. Your using your mind. Its so simple to see from my side. Everything you say LM is very much of the truth when you are in your mind. Its the mind function to experience, to seek,to poke at or to explain. The mind will always show you there is more for the simple reason that it fears its own death a mind death you could say. So yes you can go through your whole life seeking, experiencing, explaining, teaching whatever and there will stil be more. You will never reach a trancended level of awareness though. The way of the mind will always keep you chasing a tail that does not exist. For sure you will get these out of the world kinds of awakening, you will get confirmation but in truth you will always stay in the level of the mind. Think of it this way the mind is like a very large house with many rooms and many levels but it still sits on the ground of the level of the mind. So one can visit all the differnt rooms, one can go up the stairs to the higher levels sure you can do all of that. You can look out of a window on the high levels and all that you will see is the mind, the ground is the mind everything is the mind. Now simply what I am speaking about has nothing to do with hanging out though it may seem that way. Its just being awareness itself. I really cannot say any more than that. The place is not of the mind at all but just like this post I have to sink into the mind to write this. Peace Randji

[Portocala]

This is a very interesting discussion. Thank you Light Mystic and Randji.
What Light Mystic describes is sometimes called "The Second Awakening".
During the first awakening, we recognize we are not the body, but pure awareness (the absolute).
During the second awakening, we recognize that we are not the absolute (pure awareness), but something else, that encomp*filtered*es the relative and the absolute.
Of course, the above mind-game could suggest there could be many more successive awakenings - Why stop at two?
Some may be able to go directly to the final awakening.

The relative world (form) must be as real as the absolute world (emptiness) since we are able to witness both. Also, we are probably beyond both of them.
I remember very well how it was to be form-identified, and I still go back there quite often, especially in sleep. It is indeed very similar to hypnosis. I was the witness of that state, and now I witness a different state - at least from time to time.

[Chronic]

Enjoyed your first few posts Randy!