Non dual talks and more

[Portocala]

Light Mystic wrote:

In terms of individual vs. universal perception, there was a fundamental shift where universal perception become primary. Since then the universal and individual have sort of been recognized to be the same thing. All aspects of life are that same universal Awareness, and that seems to be getting more and more full. It can sound a bit paradoxical, so I'll stop there, but if you want to poke my experience I can look into it. I like doing that because I always get more out of it when I do that... Universal perception seems to come with time and attention. It's just a natural, but often intense, unwinding of all the old ways of shrinking ourselves so we can recognize what is really going on. Become more "aware" of it. Hence the term, more Awareness.

This is definitely worth exploring! There's no awakening if there is no access to "other dimensions" or universal perception. Can universal perception be similar to an out-of-body experience?

I do recognize myself in what other people do, but I can't say I see through their eyes. And I feel eternal sometimes, but it only lasts a fraction of a second.

Could universal perception be like another dimension added on top of the human experience? Maybe when all pre-conditioning is dropped, our experience extends to infinity.

Maybe more awareness means less conditioning. However, as discussed before, when all conditioning/filters are dropped, there can be no experience...

[Chronic]

"However, as discussed before, when all conditioning/filters are dropped, there can be no experience"

Who says so?

"And I feel eternal sometimes, but it only lasts a fraction of a second"

Find out who feels eternal & loses it?

If something is lost, it can not be the eternal, so reject all that can be lost & stay as the eternal, even the highest experience, you throw it away, it is NOT eternal

We place these limits on ourselves, you yourself now are the infinite

Stop playing around

[Light Mystic]

Hey Portocala,

Sounds like some real good things are happening with you. That's exciting!

In terms of other dimensions, or other realms, I find those to be just another part of relativity and really have little to do with the actual waking up process. It's kind of an unrelated thing....

Universal perception is the deep, direct knowing that the universe IS your body. So anywhere one wants to "go" or "be" is already there. That's very different from the mind games of constructing this idea of separate individual and then constructing another idea of how that "individual" "travels" outside the "body" to "other places."

It's more like you ARE that which already encomp*filtered*es all of that. Can you feel that at all? I'm guessing you do already, at least to some extent...


Seeing through other people's eyes, while, again, can be a cool mystical experience, also has little do with waking up. It's not that you "Portocala" are everything else. It's that you are that which gives rise to (and is) Portocala and you are that which gives rise to (and is) another person. You are the common denominator, even though Portocala and others decide to highlight different qualities if their own infiniteness.

Universal perception naturally dawns when we stop limiting ourselves to the human experience. Like all things related to Enlightenment, it comes from having less, not more. It's not something additional, it's something being removed so we can see what has already been going on this whole time.

In the most universal sense, there has to be SOME filter in order to have a separate experience, as we are not, in fact, separate. And ANY functioning could be considered conditioning. That said, it's really the conditioning that we believe these stories, that we feel limited by them, and that we feel confined by them, that cause the feeling trapped or limited or in pain in some way. The experiences themselves are not really the problem.

Does that make sense?

Portocala wrote:

This is definitely worth exploring! There's no awakening if there is no access to "other dimensions" or universal perception. Can universal perception be similar to an out-of-body experience? I do recognize myself in what other people do, but I can't say I see through their eyes. And I feel eternal sometimes, but it only lasts a fraction of a second. Could universal perception be like another dimension added on top of the human experience? Maybe when all pre-conditioning is dropped, our experience extends to infinity. Maybe more awareness means less conditioning. However, as discussed before, when all conditioning/filters are dropped, there can be no experience...

[Portocala]

Thank you for this meticulous *filtered*ysis, Light Mystic.

Light Mystic wrote:

In terms of other dimensions, or other realms, I find those to be just another part of relativity and really have little to do with the actual waking up process. It's kind of an unrelated thing....

Indeed, being preoccupied with dimensions/metaphysics just keeps us busy and identified with form.

Light Mystic wrote:

Seeing through other people's eyes, while, again, can be a cool mystical experience, also has little do with waking up. It's not that you "Portocala" are everything else. It's that you are that which gives rise to (and is) Portocala and you are that which gives rise to (and is) another person. You are the common denominator, even though Portocala and others decide to highlight different qualities if their own infiniteness.

I have never had any mystical experience, although I wanted to - sometime ago. This idea of being a common denominator instead of being everything else resonates with me.
I'm not chasing any experience. Rather, I'm feeling that the impulse comes from "What am I". Funny part is that the answer seems to be "I am what I am" but the mind is not satisfied with it.

Quote:

Universal perception naturally dawns when we stop limiting ourselves to the human experience. Like all things related to Enlightenment, it comes from having less, not more. It's not something additional, it's something being removed so we can see what has already been going on this whole time.

Right on the spot. Identifying with the human experience creates tunnel vision.

Quote:

In the most universal sense, there has to be SOME filter in order to have a separate experience, as we are not, in fact, separate. And ANY functioning could be considered conditioning. That said, it's really the conditioning that we believe these stories, that we feel limited by them, and that we feel confined by them, that cause the feeling trapped or limited or in pain in some way. The experiences themselves are not really the problem.

I agree: every time we experience something, we do it through a filter. Maybe the most obvious filter is the human body. Most filters seem to disappear in deep sleep. Maybe that is some sort of out-of-body experience.

[summer]

Light Mystic wrote:

In the most universal sense, there has to be SOME filter in order to have a separate experience, as we are not, in fact, separate. And ANY functioning could be considered conditioning. That said, it's really the conditioning that we believe these stories, that we feel limited by them, and that we feel confined by them, that cause the feeling trapped or limited or in pain in some way. The experiences themselves are not really the problem.

This sounds so right on Light Mystic. I always enjoying reading your posts and get a lot from what you share with us.

I am not sure where I first heard the idea that Awareness was justing hanging out as Awareness, when it decided it wanted to experience itself. To do this, it had to create something that wasn't itself, and that is where the idea of creating the Universe came in.

In the universal sense, the world of form is also awareness itself. So then the idea arose that the world of form would have to forget that it was also pure awareness, while in a temporary state. Be it a tree, a dog, a mouse, a human, an ocean, etc. etc. etc.

What is unique about the human experience is that we are able to remember our true nature, while still also experiencing a life of limited form.

Portocala,

Some thoughts about your ideas on deep sleep.

Our bodies are still alive and well in deep sleep. So there is still the limited filter of being in a human body. And if a loud noise were to suddenly sound close to the bed, we would wake up immediately. Probably jump out of bed, turn on a light, and say "What the heck was that?"

[Portocala]

summer wrote:

Our bodies are still alive and well in deep sleep. So there is still the limited filter of being in a human body. And if a loud noise were to suddenly sound close to the bed, we would wake up immediately.

This happens because only the thinking mind is sleeping. The rest of the body functions pretty much the same way - reflexes are still there.
This is why I said that in deep sleep most filters are removed - but not all. The body seems to be very smart: it can put the thinking mind to sleep, and it can wake it up when the need arises.
What's most important is that the mind (which generates the ego) is turned off, and we can have a clear no-mind experience. However, it seems that very few people are able to remain aware during deep sleep.

[Portocala]

Chronic wrote:

If something is lost, it can not be the eternal, so reject all that can be lost & stay as the eternal, even the highest experience, you throw it away, it is NOT eternal

This could be an *filtered*umption about the eternal.
What if the eternal is malleable?

[Portocala]

Light Mystic wrote:

Universal perception is the deep, direct knowing that the universe IS your body. So anywhere one wants to "go" or "be" is already there. That's very different from the mind games of constructing this idea of separate individual and then constructing another idea of how that "individual" "travels" outside the "body" to "other places."

This is very interesting, and can be achieved by toggling between "I am in the body" and "I am the universe."
The main difficulty is in realizing that everything - the universe - was created by you. This is especially difficult when, for example, a tiger comes and bites "your body."
Generally, I guess this is the real test: Are we able to continue feeling oneness when the body is suffering?

[Advertizing]

[summer]

Hi Portocala,

I just read this on another forum, and it made me think of your questions about dreamless sleep. Maybe you will enjoy reading it too

Question. However, my question is: Who/what is watching the illusion?
If the answer is that awareness is watching the illusion, why does it let itself be hypnotized by this illusion?
Apparently, awareness "enjoys" being hypnotized.

Answer by Eric Putkonen

Basically, the same question as 'why was the universe created'.

An answer is because of desire...more specifically the desire to experience. Take the sun for example...if it was conscious and looking out...if there were no objects (planets) then it would only experience a great, black expanse of space. It takes an 'other' - a planet - to p*filtered* within the projected light to evoke the experience of light by reflecting off the planet. Likewise, Awareness is not aware of itself - it is aware of objects that p*filtered* before it. So if there was no illusion (no forms), there would be no experience...much like deep, dreamless sleep (which is a time of awareness but no objects to be aware of).

Now we do not remain in deep, dreamless sleep endlessly...we have dreams. Why? Because we want them...we desire to experience. As the dreamer (that which creates and is all within the dream) there is omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence. But what is the fun in remaining as that? Such a one can not experience awe, surprise, or countless other experiences. So the view point of dream character is adopted...or seen through like colored lenses and blinders. The experience is only of what the dream character could experience. Why would the dreamer play the role of a dream character? Because it is great fun...now we can discover the world around us that we created for ourselves with fresh eyes that have never seen any of this. We can be awed, surprised, shocked, and more.

It is part of the game to be just this little person in the big world. And the big game is hide and seek. Going into deep identification with the dream character is the hide part...and then there is seeking.

So in a way you are right, awareness "enjoys" being hypnotized.

[Portocala]

This is definitely an interesting conversation.
Thank you, Summer!

[Portocala]

Hi Light Mystic and everybody,

Light Mystic wrote:

In terms of other dimensions, or other realms, I find those to be just another part of relativity and really have little to do with the actual waking up process. It's kind of an unrelated thing....

Perception of other dimensions is, in my opinion, very similar to additional levels of perception. Just like becoming able to look up and down in addition to left and right.

Light Mystic wrote:

I find that, in Enlightenment, nothing necessarily changes in terms of content. All the content - objects of perception, senses, thoughts, emotions, etc. are still there and they can behave in the same way. Sometimes (and for me this was the case) additional levels of perception opened up as well, but that was in addition too all the other stuff, not instead of it.

I see that you mention experiencing additional levels of perception. Are they similar in any way to a new dimension opening up for you?

[Light Mystic]

Hi Summer,

Thank you for your kind words.

I find that it's simply getting to a basic recognition of ourselves as That and then the identification just starts to unwind, sink in automatically, provided that attention is still being given to Awareness. The process of unwinding resistances to be Aware of that happens with time and attention, and once the shift is made, then it just takes a sinking in process. This is, again, a function of time and attention...

So it could be treated as a sort of "remembering" to put attention on that infinite that you feel. On pure Awareness itself. That which cannot be objectified. As attention is given to it really is given the opportunity to sink in and become the functioning of normal everyday life.

summer wrote:

This sounds so right on Light Mystic. I always enjoying reading your posts and get a lot from what you share with us. I am not sure where I first heard the idea that Awareness was justing hanging out as Awareness, when it decided it wanted to experience itself. To do this, it had to create something that wasn't itself, and that is where the idea of creating the Universe came in. In the universal sense, the world of form is also awareness itself. So then the idea arose that the world of form would have to forget that it was also pure awareness, while in a temporary state. Be it a tree, a dog, a mouse, a human, an ocean, etc. etc. etc. What is unique about the human experience is that we are able to remember our true nature, while still also experiencing a life of limited form. Portocala, Some thoughts about your ideas on deep sleep. Our bodies are still alive and well in deep sleep. So there is still the limited filter of being in a human body. And if a loud noise were to suddenly sound close to the bed, we would wake up immediately. Probably jump out of bed, turn on a light, and say "What the heck was that?"

[Light Mystic]

Hey Portocala,

yes, perception of other dimensions, in my experience, is simply tuning into subtler aspects of the senses.


What do you mean by a new dimension opening up? I have always had experiences of other realms to some degree, even before the beginning of the Awakening process. Over time it's gotten a lot clearer with Awakening and a lot more physical, solid, and tangible. But it's just another aspects of the universe. All aspects of the universe are available to us once Awakening sinks in, if one only desires it...

Does that address your question? If not, what is your question?

Portocala wrote:

Hi Light Mystic and everybody, Perception of other dimensions is, in my opinion, very similar to additional levels of perception. Just like becoming able to look up and down in addition to left and right. I see that you mention experiencing additional levels of perception. Are they similar in any way to a new dimension opening up for you?

[Portocala]

Yes, the question has been addressed. A new dimension does not need to be something similar to space.
For example, a new dimension can be the sense of smell for someone who wasn't able to feel it.
In the case of awakening, a new dimension is that of presence/being.

[summer]

Light Mystic wrote:

So it could be treated as a sort of "remembering" to put attention on that infinite that you feel. On pure Awareness itself. That which cannot be objectified. As attention is given to it really is given the opportunity to sink in and become the functioning of normal everyday life.

Yep. You have described very well what is going on with me.

After years of paying attention to the outside world, a strong habit took hold. Now, it takes some effort to remember the larger picture from which awareness is always the main actor, behind the scene. The habit is losing its stronghold though, and less and less effort is required.

Maybe this shift is what Portocala is speaking of?

The difference between a local awareness that is centered in the mind and body, to a non-local awareness that is everywhere, all at the same time.